Wonderland or Not

Could not agree with you more.
Keep writing
Express yourself

Ooooo…touchy subject for me right now. My best friend was a victim recently by someone we all knew. She was pretty drunk and half asleep, but he continued after she said no. After she confronted him about it, he had the nerve to say “Well, I am totally bummed that you’re mad at me still, I wish we could still be friends”. Dumbass didn’t get it. If I see him out surfing I am totally gonna run him down!

Wow… Alice… great post with no bullshit!

I knew this girl when I was stationed at Ft. Campbell… she had been sexual assaulted by 2 guys we all knew and loved… it was a horrible time for all of us! But… more so for her. She went over the deep end… and eventually took her own life. No means No!!! I don’t care what the excuse is of why you raped her! Ya, bastards!

This is a tough one…I’ve known way too many women (and men) who’ve been sexually assaulted, but once it happens, it almost always becomes a matter of he said/she said…unless the victim goes to a hospital, gets a rape kit done, and files a complaint. With drugs like ruhypnol and GHB, blood tests need to be done within a limited time. Pressing charges is hard, but victims need to do it to help get the limp-dicked SOBs off the streets.

There is something to be said for taking personal responsibility regarding personal safety but that never justifies the crime; I deal with students all the time who put themselves in extremely bad situations and then wonder why bad things end up happening to them. The protection is simple, most of the time…know your limits, never take a drink from a stranger, pour your own drinks at parties, and invest in a good taser or some pepper spray.

But all the protection in the world isn’t always enough. One never knows who a rapist is or could be. They look like everyone else. No does mean no, and forgetting, being too drunk, or whatever is never a defense when somebody crosses the line. Rape is a crime of violence, not of sex. That last quote is idiotic drivel.

I…I..I don’t know.

If dressing modest would work I say sure, but then late at night when I flip through TV cable channels I see tons of women in those …Girls Gone Wild, Wild Party Girl video inforercials exposing everything to the camera and I wonder wth don’t rapist hang out with those guys….Obviously it’s working..

I think there is a double standard, but even that is changing.
With sex becoming less sacred to both men, and women these days I have a hard time identifying rape as an issue these days.

Mixed signals everywhere.

My conclusion is that rapist are attracted to the insecure shy women who cover up rather than those who give off a sense of carelessness.

I’m not a rocket scientist but I do know things are constantly changing as the population continues to expand many times over. Everything seems to becoming a caricature of it’s blurry self.

Oh…and when I say carelessness..I also mean confidence that gives off an “I don’t care additude” which is confusing I know…..By I hope you understand what I mean…They’re one in the same.

There is never an excuse for rape… no justification for it PERIOD. It doesn’t matter what a woman is wearing, if she is drunk, if she is alone, if she is shy, if she is outgoing, if there are mixed signals, if she says she wants it and then changes her mind, … NO MEANS NO! Same would go for a man if he says no… or for a child if he/she says no.

The definition of NO…used as a negative reply, expressing denial, refusal or disagreement

The defintion of RAPE… the crime of forcing a person, especially a woman, to have sexual intercourse against their will.

They are one in the same…

http://illbootengotty.blogspot.com/

Doughboy: thanks for stopping by. I checked out your blog I be back.

Leigh: it is often by someone you know and the whole attitude about it is what has to change.How awful for your friend.

girl: it’s a shame it had to come to that. I thik most people know someone who this has happened to.

zenpro: there is nothing wrong with taking personal responsibility for your safety but in the case of rape one should not be passing out lame ass letters to women all over the internet telling them to dress differently, act differently and stay in when it’s dark.It should not be the woman who has to prevent rape. That is the whole point. Rape when perpetrated upon a women by a man is always the mans faulty no matter what the women wears, where she was or what signals she sent or he seemed to think she sent. No is no and sex when the other person is not able to consent is also a crime and no one should blame or insinuate that the woman deserved it for getting drunk or whatever. Nor should we allow for “men being men” because men like that are frankly animals and criminals.

Bennet: I am pretty sure more guys are going to miss the point but it goes to figure. Mixed signals? No such thing. If a girl dresses sexy and acts provacatively it does not mean she want to fuck you and it should not be assumed she does. Of course there is a double standard and although it may have changed some over the last fifty years it has changed no where near to where it should be. If it were so there would be no more suggesting to women that to prevent rape they should dress differently and act differently because it would not matter. Believe me it is an issue as unreported rape happens all the time on college campuses, high schools, and I am sure in private homes among husbands and wives.
There should be no reason for women to have to dress a certain way to prevent something that should not be happening anyway.

That is interesting Bennet, but the rapes I am talking about are actually more often than not perpetrated by people one knows or are in close contact with all the time. Not the ones done by a crazy psychotic out on the street. The basic safety lessons on that blog are really the basic lessons one that lives in the city or on a large campus practice daily to prevent any kind of molestation or physical attack and does not necessarily speak to the issue.

Girl: I think we were spazzing out at the same time.

Bennet: Are you sure you didn’t tell me you were a rocket scientist?????

The song works perfectly into what you are trying to say. I admit we have had some discussion on this here at school and the discussion is at times heated.

I agree men still have an attitude of ” if she dresses like she wants it she deserves it” and there are lot of people that take advantage of girls in drunken states as well.
It is a problem still and the attitude would bother me if I were a women.

I totally agree, particularly with castrating rapists. However, let me put a situation forward that actually happened to a friend of mine recently.

A girl meets a friend of her roommate, who will be staying for the weekend with the roommate. They all go out and get drunk and come home and the girl and the friend start to make out. The girl takes the friend to her room, gives him oral sex, and recieves oral from him. That was all they did before going back to seperate rooms for a night of drunken snoring. The next day, she tells her boyfriend she has cheated on him, and he calls the police and has the friend arrested for sexual assault.

No, the cops did not charge the friend, but the girl and the roommate are no longer roommates.

I have trouble identifying rape as an issue

What the fuck?

Don’t get me wrong, I could talk for hours about mixed signals, but that shit doesn’t belong here.

If someone does say “no” when they don’t mean it, that’s their problem. Mixed signals should only result in consensual sex not happening when it could have.

Very good topic to bring up Alice.

No is no is no is no.

Rape is a violent crime and sadly more often than not, women are blamed or never believed. There is an extreme double standard for women and their sexuality altogether.

Interlacing those song lyrics in your post is actually pretty brilliant and exemplifies the meaning of your post.

No is no, there is no but, and there are no even if’s.

Mixed signals come under something else and do not have anything to do with rape as they are not a reason for rape.

I understand what bennet was saying, mixed signals can be frustrating, but they are not an excuse or reason for non consensual sex.

Great slap in the face for my midnight read.

don’t know why my link did not come up.

As the ex-boyfriend of someone who was sexually assaulted, rest assured I agree with you, Miss Cooper, when it comes to men being the assholes in the situation. The whole argument of women dressing provocatively to entice men as justification for rape makes as much sense as an Escalade with its keys in the ignition and no one attending being justification for grand theft auto.

Wrong is wrong, and telling oneself she wanted it is something one says when one feels guilty and not when she actually wanted it.

I don’t think it’s a complicated subject. It’s as simple as you say Alice. No mitigating circumstances, no excuses, reasons, or contributing factors.

Nothing changes rape, and just because a woman expresses herself sexually does not mean that men are suddenly deprived of their responsibility for their actions.

It’s usually the refrain of people who are threatened by women being sexual and comfortable with their sexuality in the modern world, usually sexually intimidated men, who ascribe something stupid like this to wearing provocative clothing, or engaging in promiscuous behavior.

Great post. And don’t ever let a dumn fuck influence how you want to express yourself.

A very high percentage of rapes are “acquaintance rapes” meaning that the rapist knows the victim and viceversa.

Bennet, there is nothing ambiguous about it. The chick could be giving you a blow job for all I care and then change her mind and not want to do anything else and you have to lay off. She could even have started something, meaning penetration my friend, change her mind in the middle of it all, say stop, and you would have to stop. You can think her a bitch, call her what you will but bottom line…

NO MEANS NO.

As to how a woman dresses, acts, speaks, walks, etc…. I say that those CANNOT and SHOULD NOT ever be used as “reasons” why a woman may have been raped. Put the focus where it belongs… on the sick fuck who is out there getting off on the pain he inflicts on his victims whose lives he fucks up forever.

It is a black and white issue. A woman should do whatever the fuck she wants and not be raped. Period. No ambiguity there my friend!

Alice~ Great post! Keep ‘em coming and don’t apologize for expressing yourself. Those who can’t handle it have no place being here in the first place. You have touched a very sensitive button here with me! You are the inspiration behind my next post. Forgive me for I shall copy your topic!

Oh! You once said you liked my template. Yours inspired me to pick that one. I liked the dimension that looking out the car into another world gives your template. You have two worlds in one. And the black being prevalent gives it a more intimate and solitary feel. Basically, lovin’ it girl!

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Hmmm…good points again, Alice. Hope I didn’t imply that I agree with the whole “she asked for it” rubbish. In the end, rape is not a women’s issue or a men’s issue; it needs to be dealt with by society as a whole. There probably are some underlying cultural things in the West that need to be addressed with rape. Not just perceptions of rape, but how they’re approached. I’ve met just as many women who buy into that “boys will be boys” or “she asked for it” b.s. as I have guys.

Coyote Mike:
Damn, talk about flashbacks. I was an ex-boyfriend who had his girlfriend accuse another person of sexual assault. I believed her, until I discovered this supposed rapist was two states away when the rape supposedly happened. I felt torn apart inside; my girlfriend was saying she was raped, but everything was just so fishy and I felt like an ass for doubting her story. Nothing added up - not the timeline, not the scenario, not even the events leading up to the assault. Yet she proceeded to tell everyone - but the cops - about how he had assaulted her. That, and other things, led to the ending of our relationship (she accused this guy of rape because she was afraid I’d find out she’d been cheating on me, according to her best friend, who got her to ‘fess up, and didn’t like the guy anyway.) What does a society do with people who make up sexual assaults? It harms the credibility of those who are really victims, harms the case for stiffer penalties, and it harms a lot more innocent people.

Hey Alice I was raped in high school in the village. Wasnt’ even dressed immodestly–knew him.

I was lucky–didn’t affect my sense of self or sexuality—met my off and on college boyfriend soon after

You know my John Gotti story–Lucia still claims I was his wet dream when he was in

Once in Central Park a man on a bike flipped my bustier dress down

I know I was dressed immodestly most of my late teens 20’s and 30’s–had a survivor instinct that stopped bad things usually–was never raped again

as for girls who make stories up, they deserve something because girls should dress how they want to, and should feel secure.

males are more to blame—but that’s a whole thesis, and I clicked all the buttons so I commented on the old parents one, and still haven’t had coffee

Thought you would be the only one to really get my post though I thought it was pretty explcit

That’s a disgusting song, it’s no wonder there are rapes on college campuses with girls having that attitude.

Pathetically inaccurate comment. Obviously too obtuse to understand the point of the post.

Point well taken the “even if’s” go without saying.

I’d write more but I just got in and I have class and am recovering from a long drive.

This is progressing nicely.

I have a hard time with sincere comments. No woman is complicit in rape, but any guy who doesn’t wait for yes wasn’t raised decently. Imprison the parents too.

A great post with some things that really needed to be said, count on Alice to do it.

I like this best: “But it?s the men who are attacking the women. If there?s to be a curfew, let the men stay at home, not the women”.

Amen Golda.

Alice, you beat me to my comment when you said “There should be no reason for women to have to dress a certain way to prevent something that should not be happening anyway.”

Great post.

I agree. Rape is rape. Perhaps there are some things one can do to lessen the chance of falling prey to any type of predetor…but it is the rapist that is commiting the assault.

“That’s a disgusting song, it’s no wonder there are rapes on college campuses with girls having that attitude.”

To sign your name anonymous is a cowards way out… if you are going to have the balls to comment… sign your name…

Alice… you got your point across… and it was a damn good one!

jake: thanks jake but it should also bother you as a man.

coyote: I think that is a totally different thing and of course the wise thing for the boyfriend to do woul d have been to dump her and get a tested for STD’s.

wombat: right, mixed signal have nothing to do with it, that is a whole different discussion.

mj: exactly, a women is a slut and a man is a stud- go figure. I’m so glad to see you still around mj.

bizman: I agree as noted about the mixed signals. Ah the midnight read.

mojo:righ on mo jo. the prevelent societal attitudes are just skewed.

graham:My feeling exactly.

miz bohem: thanks and it is a topic that needs proliferation.

Deleted comment: I do still get them in my email . Said he wasn’t my father so he wasn’t going to call me righteous and naive. You didn’t really have to delete it it didn’t hurt my feelings or anything.

Zenpro: I have also meant many women with the same attitude and frankly that is part of the problem.

coyote: that too is a whole other subject but let us not confuse the tow issues and the fact that one occurs does not is any way lesson the fact that when it happens, and it happens often, it is a criminal act and not justifiable in any way.

pia: that is awful for you but obviously( not said flippantly) you probably always had the self esteem and sense of self to know that it was not your fualt and not to fall apart after being violated. I would love to make some comments aboutbeibg some guys wet dream but i’ll save that for another time but that is why I don’t wear bustiers to Central park- or any other place for that matter. lol

males are soley to blame.

I find hat sometimes people do not get anything no matter how clear you think you make it. I think in reality a lot of people are just really stupid.

no one here of course.

anony: It’s a great song and if a song can cause rape we have more problems than we thought.

robotman: obviously obtuse and of course you would understand.

Doug: of course you do but you did comment so I give you ten points and a big hug.

seize: it was a perfect quote from an awesome individual who had it right.

Sar: thanks.

jay: you are right rape is rape no matter. You can take percautions to protect your home, lots of percautions but if you don’t install that alarm, put in those lights that go on and off automatically, get a large pit bull….the person who robs you is still a criminal- there is no doubt as to that. It is the same way with rape only it is not looked at that way.

girl: thanks.

1. When I was single, I was amazed at how often I would be rolling and toussling with a woman, and she would say something like, “no,” or “stop,” or “we shouldn’t,” and so I’d pull back, take a deep breath, and chill out… and my date would look at me like I was some kind of idiot. She: “Why’d ya stop for?” Me: “Uh, well, you said to.” She (contempt for my stupidity apparent): “You’re supposed to be able to read the subtle and nuanced signals. Sometimes when a girl says no, she really means yes.”

I agree with the comment that the worst outcome here ought to be missed opportunities for consensual sex; I personally missed a lot of it. Maybe even more than I had.

But it is a slippery slope. There, I said it.

I have no sympathy for rapists. Rape is violent assault, and no one “asks for” violent assault (assailant stupidity isa different from victim complicity.) But ladies, please remember that we are men. When it comes to subtlety and complexity and nuance, we are like the dog when you pretend to throw the tennis ball. In a million years, we won’t get it. No has to mean no all the time. Otherwise we’re hopelessly confused, and that can’t be good.

Men and women are in this thing together. Guys are taught early onthat no means no. The nice boys who believe this and behave accordingly should be encouraged, not made to feel like sissy boy saps. So when one of us does behave in the fashion I describe above, toss him a sympathy fuck every once in a while. Give the nice boy a break. It would go a long way for all concerned in the eternal battle of the sexes.

2. I think that song is “Flower,” not “Blow Job Queen.”

looks like I am late as usual and everything that needs to be said has been said. UMmmmm…I guess I will just agree with all the smart people here who are most likely femenists and intelligent-things I can’t say for a rapist. If there were more Lorena Bobbits in the world maybe there would be less rape. Certain crimes need penalties that although cruel, would deter the crime. Now I don’t think stealing deserves an arm cut off, but raping deserves a man’s genetailia mutalated and vice versa for women, although you don’t hear much about women raping men. Cause women are smart. Men are dumb and easy to seduce and usually never say no-this is coming from a man-so trust me-its just how we think. I am happy there are laws in place that point out child molesters and rapists in the community so you can know who your neighbors are, but truth be told it is usually a friend that does it. People in general need to be more up front about setting boundaries such as “JUST FRIENDS PERIOD” in the beginning but it will never happen. It’s not a comforterable conversation to have. If any of this doesn’t make sence-then I’m just too tired to be writing and too bad! Thanks for bringing up an important topic and the lyrics were interesting-explains why I don’t like rap much.

Josh: there is no slippery slope, it’s probably wise if you’re with somene who says no a lot and supposedly means yes to dump her as she is apparently a game player and the games never end.

The songs original name was Blow Job Queen they changed it when they put out the CD or the second run of the CD or something like that.

Chris: Thanks for the commments. Women raping men…um truthfully it really can’t happen in the same way.
Not to pick on you but this is part of the point…and is worth mentioning….
It’s a folk’rock song not a rap song… this is funny only because the presumption about a song that has such language like that is that it is from a rapper when in fact it is song an written and sung by a white female Oberlin College class of 89 graduate.

Also I realized I offended a lot of people by posting that song, at least by the emails I recieved and I would say I’m sorry but frankly I’m not so think what you will.

“There should be no reason for women to have to dress a certain way to prevent something that should not be happening anyway.”
That is a great quote.
The way you dress is in no way the determination of your charactor.
I dress differently each and every day, and I watch how peoples eyes target me. Those people are shallow to say the best of them.
I used to care what “they” thought, now I know that “they” did not know me at all. So your pespective on rape is one that I agree with, Alice and everyone else, those who do not agree with us are shallow people. I wish I had the confidence, like you have, to actually say what I feel. That seems like a long way away to me. So, for now I can’t, I hide it well.
I just wear black, ’cause “they” don’t know what that means to me.

brava on your treatment of what still remains a grossly underestimated issue. i think everyone else gave such brilliant commentary (that’s what i get for clocking in late) that to type down my original thoughts would be redundant. however, i just have to say that coming from a catholic country, a lot of the blame is still placed on the woman. if she was dressed in a way that flaunted her sexuality, she probably deserved it. and if they found out she wasn’t a virgin, well, must be god working in mysterious ways. i mean, what the fuck? explains my distate for how the religion is practiced where i am.

Let’s see. Oberlin, 89. I never heard of this song, but is that Liz Fair (am I spelling that right)? I didn’t know her, but my boyfriend from there did.
I have to mildly disagree about the idiotic drivel. I don’t believe rape is ever the victim’s fault, and of course it would be nice to live in an ideal world where rapes didn’t occur, but if a minor behavior change is proven to prevent rapes to any degree, wouldn’t it make sense to adopt it? Of course, I’m not sure what the evidence on this is: does modest clothing really discourage rape? But I and several friends did agree that certain shirts seemed to encourage grabbers more than others. . . .
Other behavior changes seem to me to make even more sense and not punish women at all. If one is not sure whether or not a guy is a potential rapist, isn’t it wiser to avoid inviting him into a private area and keep everything out in the open? Who suffers from this? Only rapists, as far as I can tell.
Again, that is NOT to say that women who invite men in are “asking for it.”

gawd girl, you do get comments.

Have a Bring it on post loosely based on one of your links -;)

“Only rapists suffer from rape?”
idiotic drivel
The raped suffer and not the rapist…….
Truth hurts…..
“Man… some people”
Are not as smart as they type.

Weirsdo, I guess luring a girl into a private area is OK with you, since then only the rapist would suffer?

doughboy: care what you think, that usually always works best.

tran: better late than never I say.:)
I have brilliant commenters.

and then there is the good old usa where things are pretty much the same as they are in your country; we just hide it better.

weirdso: yes liz phair.

I just diagree in general that a women should have to do anything to mitigate circumstances surrounding something that is clearly a violation and illegal.

I would seriously like to see the statis